tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post110871693913846768..comments2024-01-07T05:17:58.943-05:00Comments on Orthoprax: Divine AcquiescenceOrthopraxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128651408881708412005-10-06T22:16:00.000-04:002005-10-06T22:16:00.000-04:00Alex,"Accept" means to acknowledge as true."Univer...Alex,<BR/><BR/>"Accept" means to acknowledge as true.<BR/><BR/>"Universal" means "all."<BR/><BR/>"Jews" are the Israelites who recognized themselves as such.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128641798048998952005-10-06T19:36:00.000-04:002005-10-06T19:36:00.000-04:00Now I'm kinda wishing that you'd answer Ben Sorer'...Now I'm kinda wishing that you'd answer Ben Sorer's question about how you define "acceptance" and those other words. I'd agree with this final posting of yours if I agreed with your definitions. Also, I might prefer you say "much of its meaning" instead of "all meaning."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128295641721230152005-10-02T19:27:00.000-04:002005-10-02T19:27:00.000-04:00Alex,Idolatry is a fundamental denial of YHVH's po...Alex,<BR/><BR/>Idolatry is a fundamental denial of YHVH's power. It's not just about "being bad" but clear evidence of unbelief in the Torah's theology.<BR/><BR/>If this is an acceptance of the Torah then "acceptance" loses all meaning.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128289042768594202005-10-02T17:37:00.000-04:002005-10-02T17:37:00.000-04:00Would say that a large percentage of Orthodox Jews...Would say that a large percentage of Orthodox Jews today speak occasional, or more-than-occasional lashon hara? How about the percentage of those who put ritual over ethics? Judging from your website, I'd say you would. Back then, the drive for idolatry was big, like lashon hara and ritualism is now. <BR/>Now am I stretching it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128232570932701342005-10-02T01:56:00.000-04:002005-10-02T01:56:00.000-04:00Alex,You're stretching it. People like me are rare...Alex,<BR/><BR/>You're stretching it. People like me are rare. And you certainly are not justified in making the assumption that all the Israelite idolaters were like that.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1128225128149824192005-10-01T23:52:00.000-04:002005-10-01T23:52:00.000-04:00"such behavior certainly gives us good reason to d..."such behavior certainly gives us good reason to doubt that it was universally accepted."<BR/><BR/>I'd say that it merely gives us good reason to think that the Jews at that time were human beings with human failings. People don't always follow what they believe. Take you for instance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1127980750963339202005-09-29T03:59:00.000-04:002005-09-29T03:59:00.000-04:00Alex,I highly doubt that the Torah was in the form...Alex,<BR/><BR/>I highly doubt that the Torah was in the form we are familar with at the time of such idolatry, but even without taking that into account, such behavior certainly gives us good reason to doubt that it was universally accepted. <BR/><BR/>Why should we think it was?Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1127892296586190512005-09-28T03:24:00.000-04:002005-09-28T03:24:00.000-04:00"Take what we see in Tanach, large segments of the..."Take what we see in Tanach, large segments of the Israelite population and even kings of Israel and Judah were constantly serving other gods in the neighborhood. Baal, Molech, Dagan, etc. So the assertion that "the torah was universally accepted by the jews" is clearly false."<BR/><BR/>Just as there are those who reject the Torah yet still follow some of it (like you), there are others who accept the Torah yet still reject some of it (such as those who were enamored of the Baal). So, your final statement is not a knock-down winner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1110229648229914992005-03-07T16:07:00.000-05:002005-03-07T16:07:00.000-05:00OP, a few add'l thoughts
- define "universal"
-...OP, a few add'l thoughts <br /><br />- define "universal"<br /><br />- define "accept." Does it mean serious, unreserved, critical acceptance in the face of other options, acceptance to a limited degree or just a nod and a "whatever?" <br /><br />- define "Jews." The ones we're aware of today or the ones who we no longer count because they didn't "accept" the Torah?<br /><br />- assume the Torah was "universally accepted by the Jews." What percentage of the entire human universe did/do the Jews comprise? A far greater number of people "accepted" the Torah, with the "value added" that God had a baby and the rules needed to be changed. A far greater number of people have accepted "Bhagavad Gita." We Jews have clearly missed some important memos.<br /><br />- Assume the Jews really did universally accept the Torah 2-3,000 years ago. How much similarity does it have to the "Torah" of today? "Everyone" agreed not to cook a goat in its mother's milk, but no rabbis needed to be consulted if the milk spoon was accidentally used to stir the beef stew (wait, there were no "milk" or "meat" dishes.) People made a "good faith effort" to rinse blood from their meat, (sort of the way greens were handled before "bodek" came to town.) A woman who completed menstruating would "wash herself in water" (she's an adult and the details are up to her,) and go on with her life that evening. When Shabbat came, they closed down their business and carried their kids and their picnics on their backs, regardless of the status of the vine strung around the village and what the rabbis had to say about said vine (wait, there was no vine.)<br /><br />Ben, shlit"aBen Sorer Morehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05126544104945727035noreply@blogger.com