tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post114703872392563600..comments2024-01-07T05:17:58.943-05:00Comments on Orthoprax: Modern Orthodoxy's DependenceOrthopraxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1149634662478078082006-06-06T18:57:00.000-04:002006-06-06T18:57:00.000-04:00RR,A valid point. I guess it goes both ways.RR,<BR/><BR/>A valid point. I guess it goes both ways.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1149627184540911332006-06-06T16:53:00.000-04:002006-06-06T16:53:00.000-04:00I know this comment is coming well after everyone ...I know this comment is coming well after everyone has left this particular post. But there is a point I'd like to make.<BR/><BR/>Part of the reason the MO aren't in these fields is that the UO keep them out. How many UO practitioners would take an MO apprentice, especially when it probably means taking one less UO apprentice? Esepcially given the previous comments that these are some of the few areas where UO people can make a living.<BR/><BR/>So it isn't only that MO people stay away; they;re kept away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147442034674181742006-05-12T09:53:00.000-04:002006-05-12T09:53:00.000-04:00You're right, its a weird relationship, and its be...You're right, its a weird relationship, and its being tested as we speak.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147305805173671292006-05-10T20:03:00.000-04:002006-05-10T20:03:00.000-04:00Mississippi Fred,"And in a way, this symbiotic rel...Mississippi Fred,<BR/><BR/>"And in a way, this symbiotic relationship is good, because it keeps the groups attached to one another."<BR/><BR/>That's true, but it's still a weird relationship because you may not like the way those other guys practice their Judaism, but you may hold your tongue because they do good work.<BR/><BR/>That's the primary reason why the rest of Orthodoxy tolerates so much of the weirdness coming from Chabad. They do good work. They make it possible to find kosher food in the most distant corners of Earth and they are bringing more unaffiliated Jews back into the fold than any other group.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147279819432885412006-05-10T12:50:00.000-04:002006-05-10T12:50:00.000-04:00There are more MO people with those skills than yo...There are more MO people with those skills than you think.<BR/><BR/>But as others have pointed out, haredim also depend on the MO for other essentials. Also, the vaccum would be filled in any case. People like Isaac Leeser could do all of the above in the United States before there were haredim in America. If there was a void, you can bet more MO would fill it, rather than mass neglect of tefillin.<BR/><BR/>And in a way, this symbiotic relationship is good, because it keeps the groups attached to one another. Take a look at Habad, which is almost totally self-sufficient, but to its detriment--it is largely divorced from the rest of Orthodoxy, even aside from the rebbe issue.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147147466129315562006-05-09T00:04:00.000-04:002006-05-09T00:04:00.000-04:00Spinoza,Sure, I was thinking that too. But who's Y...Spinoza,<BR/><BR/>Sure, I was thinking that too. But who's Yisachar and who's Zevulun?Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147104932293024512006-05-08T12:15:00.000-04:002006-05-08T12:15:00.000-04:00kind of like a yisachar z'vulin relationshipkind of like a yisachar z'vulin relationshipB. Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086206346767831626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147060420322169742006-05-07T23:53:00.000-04:002006-05-07T23:53:00.000-04:00JF,LOL! I wouldn't put it that way, but I see what...JF,<BR/><BR/>LOL! I wouldn't put it that way, but I see what you mean.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147060245871436022006-05-07T23:50:00.000-04:002006-05-07T23:50:00.000-04:00I guess if you put it that way, then the UO are th...I guess if you put it that way, then the UO are the Mexicans of the Jewish world.The Jewish Freakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00959225860182589944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147059132677288842006-05-07T23:32:00.000-04:002006-05-07T23:32:00.000-04:00Dag,"Kind of like the UO dependence on MO jews for...Dag,<BR/><BR/>"Kind of like the UO dependence on MO jews for DRs lawyers, etc."<BR/><BR/>Sure, that's true to some extent. But even more than that, UOs go to MOs for monetary support for everything too.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Anon,<BR/><BR/>Sure, I agree with you completely.<BR/><BR/><BR/>GH,<BR/><BR/>Hmm, that's new information for me, but I think even with that one organization UOs still command the far majority of that kind of business worldwide. And I'd say that generally MOs are just not interested in doing it themselves. It's a symbiotic relationship.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147055171208876802006-05-07T22:26:00.000-04:002006-05-07T22:26:00.000-04:00This may be true in the US but I don't think it's ...This may be true in the US but I don't think it's so true in Israel. There's a huge tefillin / mezuzot place there called Tefillin Bet El which is Dati Leumi (MO equivalent kinda).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147053526476101302006-05-07T21:58:00.000-04:002006-05-07T21:58:00.000-04:00The UO's have a limited range of occupations that ...The UO's have a limited range of occupations that they can get into without university studies and the like, among which are those in the religious field, so they tend to dominate them. Also, those occupations tend to be less lucrative financially, another reason why MO's are not as common in them. I don't think it's an MO genetic deficiency that they can't make tefillin or do shechita. It's just that they would rather not engage in cut-throat competition for paltry sums in those fields with their UO brethren, so they largely cede those areas to them. This trend is not new. Once such trends start, they tend to be somewhat self-perpetuating, as having a shochet or sofer for a father makes it easier for UO children to get into those fields, as having a doctor or lawyer father make those fields easier for MO kids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-1147040112503133522006-05-07T18:15:00.000-04:002006-05-07T18:15:00.000-04:00Kind of like the UO dependence on MO jews for DRs ...Kind of like the UO dependence on MO jews for DRs lawyers, etc. I know those are aviliable outside of the Frum community, but I do believe most UO do use MO professionalsDAGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09475799835170867139noreply@blogger.com