tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post7848841756853750415..comments2024-01-07T05:17:58.943-05:00Comments on Orthoprax: Rabbi Schachter (effectively) Forbids Jewish SurgeonsOrthopraxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-25491965925484164602009-12-13T20:21:28.270-05:002009-12-13T20:21:28.270-05:00Hello !.
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Let`s take our chance together to feel the smell of real moneyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-80434286465502621432008-01-01T14:24:00.000-05:002008-01-01T14:24:00.000-05:00Prof,I don't think R' Schachter's ruling makes any...Prof,<BR/><BR/>I don't think R' Schachter's ruling makes any issue with a trained doctor in a hospital, but with a residency where the doctor is learning his trade.<BR/><BR/>Though a curious analogy would be to see if green EMTs or paramedics are permitted to ride on Shabbos.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-48371584717163185852008-01-01T14:15:00.000-05:002008-01-01T14:15:00.000-05:00Way late to this discussion, but there are some ar...Way late to this discussion, but there are some areas of hilchos shabbos we must not be aware of. When the Hatzoloh program was coming into existence, it was paskened that not only could the volunteers take ill people to the hospital but that the volunteers could drive back to where they came from, and which they do ad hayom. If pikuach nefesh is involved for Hatzoloh volunteers, to the point where they can drive home and in that driving there certainly is no pikuach nefesh involved, then how much more so for a doctor in a hospital setting?ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-89819613334134896272007-10-21T17:57:00.000-04:002007-10-21T17:57:00.000-04:00Rich Perkins: Maybe it should be forbidden to conc...Rich Perkins: <BR/>Maybe it should be forbidden to conceive a baby. After all, maybe you will go into labor on Shabbos, and then would have to perform melachos for pikuach nefesh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-84039301552951421922007-10-20T21:33:00.000-04:002007-10-20T21:33:00.000-04:00>>"also, there are sources that say that all docto...>>"also, there are sources that say that all doctors end up in hell."<BR/><BR/>>Actually that's only the _best_ of doctors, according to the Mishna.<BR/><BR/>Which, I'm sure you'll be!<BR/><BR/>So here's pshat.Tov is Gemtria 17. The doctor who leaves out Refuainu from the Shmoneh Esrah, who relies on himself and leaves out God, that Doctor is destined for Hell. You'll be fine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-56626185217981695042007-10-20T19:49:00.000-04:002007-10-20T19:49:00.000-04:00only the best? I'm sure I learned this mishna, but...only the best? I'm sure I learned this mishna, but it was three years ago and I don't remember exactly. of course, in those days, even the best doctors still killed most of their patients, so it's not really 100% applicable now. my point was, if you're looking at halachik texts, they do sort of tend in that direction...and yet Rambam was a doctor. ah the ancient Jewish culture, with all its glorious self-contradictions.Mirihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00971075346520291515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-71035041618310334732007-10-20T19:33:00.000-04:002007-10-20T19:33:00.000-04:00Miri,I've been headed towards medicine since eleme...Miri,<BR/><BR/>I've been headed towards medicine since elementary school, but that's just me. :-)<BR/><BR/>"also, there are sources that say that all doctors end up in hell."<BR/><BR/>Actually that's only the _best_ of doctors, according to the Mishna.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-82699774375770705072007-10-20T17:59:00.000-04:002007-10-20T17:59:00.000-04:00I have heard it said that if one really feels that...I have heard it said that if one really feels that they have the talent to be a doctor such that they feel that is what G-d intended them for, then they should go into medicine regardless. bu you have to be really really sure.<BR/><BR/>also, there are sources that say that all doctors end up in hell. so you know. either way.Mirihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00971075346520291515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-14456197540726756672007-10-19T17:40:00.000-04:002007-10-19T17:40:00.000-04:00Miri,I would prefer that the powers that be recogn...Miri,<BR/><BR/>I would prefer that the powers that be recognize the issue and see things more like me thus bringing Halacha more into the 21st century. If not then individuals will have to make up their own minds as situations so arise.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Rich,<BR/><BR/>Sure, I know that R' Schachter's views are far from the margins. Doesn't mean he's got the right perspective though.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-19552717650231966252007-10-19T11:58:00.000-04:002007-10-19T11:58:00.000-04:00I had a rebbi in high school that echoed what R'Sh...I had a rebbi in high school that echoed what R'Shachter said.<BR/><BR/>The line my rebbi used was basically . . . once you are a doctor, it is clear that you can be mechalal shabbos to save someone's life. However, it is not so clear that you are allowed to become a doctor since you know that you will be put in that situation at some point in your career.<BR/><BR/>So he basically says you shouldn't go into the medical profession at all.<BR/><BR/>Can't say I agree with him, but just wanted to throw it in there that R'Shachter really isn't so far out in left field on this one.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12909933722622649565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-12098019490501008672007-10-19T09:33:00.000-04:002007-10-19T09:33:00.000-04:00when you say "should not be limiting" do you mean ...when you say "should not be limiting" do you mean halachically should not be, or in general, if you feel there is a conflict, you shouldn't adhere to halacha?Mirihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00971075346520291515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-12721392039614707692007-10-19T04:50:00.000-04:002007-10-19T04:50:00.000-04:00HH,I know there are plenty of people who do exactl...HH,<BR/><BR/>I know there are plenty of people who do exactly that.<BR/><BR/>Could be a touchy subject but could you ask him how strictly he holds himself to hilchot Shabbos while in the hospital? Any serious conflicts ever arise?Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-36390799518596520842007-10-19T04:02:00.000-04:002007-10-19T04:02:00.000-04:00I have a shomer shabbat friend that is in his inte...I have a shomer shabbat friend that is in his internship, I believe as an anethesialogist (however you spell that). When he gets the page, he heads to work on shabbat. He even sleeps there and does kiddush there at times.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-86550017038971101472007-10-18T22:45:00.000-04:002007-10-18T22:45:00.000-04:00Miri,"How exactly are you defining "important and ...Miri,<BR/><BR/>"How exactly are you defining "important and key positions in society?" Is this an issue of pikuach nefesh, or of mobility and success?"<BR/><BR/>When I said "success of man" I wasn't really referring to the individual. I consider baseball entertaining, but it is basically frivolous. <BR/><BR/>There are positions in society that are "necessary services" as much as any service is truly necessary. Medicine, police, education, government leaders, etc. Being observant should not be a seriously limiting factor on your options or activity. Pikuach nefesh is part of the idea, but it's not it entirely.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Spinoza,<BR/><BR/>"I assume you would think it's permitted for a Kohen to become a surgeon?"<BR/><BR/>Sure - especially since technically even, there's nothing Halachically problematic with it per se. For Kohanim and medicine the Halachic issues are of an educational and environmental nature, not an inherent one.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-7658863845526918772007-10-18T20:59:00.000-04:002007-10-18T20:59:00.000-04:00I assume you would think it's permitted for a Kohe...I assume you would think it's permitted for a Kohen to become a surgeon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-86615939573036512892007-10-18T20:21:00.000-04:002007-10-18T20:21:00.000-04:00"But it seems to me that if we're talking about im..."But it seems to me that if we're talking about important and key positions in society, then they ought not be forbidden through Halacha."<BR/><BR/>How exactly are you defining "important and key positions in society?" Is this an issue of pikuach nefesh, or of mobility and success? If somebody has the talent to be a brilliant surgeon, which would inarguably save lives, that's pikuach nefesh. Playing for the Mets? That's "an important and key position in society."Mirihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00971075346520291515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-89167330628854882152007-10-18T19:06:00.000-04:002007-10-18T19:06:00.000-04:00Wolf,Yes, I take your point. There's a reason ther...Wolf,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I take your point. There's a reason there aren't any shomer shabbos players on the Mets. But it seems to me that if we're talking about important and key positions in society, then they ought not be forbidden through Halacha.<BR/><BR/>We're talking medicine here, not football.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-13408132650225229892007-10-18T18:22:00.000-04:002007-10-18T18:22:00.000-04:00On the serious side, there are certain jobs that s...On the serious side, there are certain jobs that simply clash with halacha and there is little wiggle room to work with.<BR/><BR/>Another good example would be a college football coach. College football games happen on Shabbos in the vast majority of cases. <BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-16318464702474025892007-10-18T18:17:00.000-04:002007-10-18T18:17:00.000-04:00Porn star, then? :DThe WolfPorn star, then? :D<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-20889372228898367722007-10-18T17:49:00.000-04:002007-10-18T17:49:00.000-04:00Wolf,One can be a great chef in a kosher restauran...Wolf,<BR/><BR/>One can be a great chef in a kosher restaurant. It's not a blanket prohibition against being a chef.Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10333247.post-40072642012198452752007-10-18T17:41:00.000-04:002007-10-18T17:41:00.000-04:00I certainly don't know enough about Hilchos Shabbo...I certainly don't know enough about Hilchos Shabbos to address the case in question, but the idea that halacha can trump a career is not so far-fetched. <BR/><BR/>A good example would be a top chef in a restaurant. While there is no prohibition against preparing non-kosher food, there is one against cooking meat and milk together. As such, even if I wanted to be a top chef at some fancy eatery, I know that as a halacha-observant Jew, I simply cannot do so (unless I can get someone else to make all the basar v'chalav dishes).<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.com